234 Responses to “Why logo design does not cost $5.00”

1. Anthony Woods on May 22, 2008 said:

   Logo Identities are very highly unrated of the process that has to be done to achieve the result, most people think its a 2 minute job. I agree with every point you have listed jacob, logos should be a main priority in the design world, “first impressions often leave lasting ones” as one would say.

   Alot of brain storming goes into logos, to create meaning, a bad logo is one that doesnt have one. And to offer only $5 is jaw dropping, it kind of reflects in the web developement world aswell, before i started to study in college, i was designing websites for about $40 - $50 until i learned all about the paperwork, the thought process, the analysis, development and evaluation and quickly changed my market to reflect the work that has to be put in.

   Logos should be priced highly as your design! Very well structured and meaningful article :)touches on a valid point.

2. Prescott Perez-Fox (@scottperezfox) on May 22, 2008 said:

   If logos cost $5.00, an agency would have to churn out about 50 logos an hour just to break even. Talk about an assembly line!

   Developing an identity, like every other professional service, takes time and expertise. That time and expertise needs to be adequately valued. Period.

   Prescott Perez-Foxs last blog post..Credit Where Credit is Due

3. inspirationbit on May 22, 2008 said:

   well thought out explanations on the cost of having a professional logo and the reasons behind that. Nice work on self-promotion as well

   Btw, your link to $35 logo contest took me to a $10 logo contest, but from there I found a link to $35 logo contest results which turned out to be Maki’s request to design his logo for DoshDosh in 2006. It took him less than 2 years to contact a professional logo designer to re-design his logo
   inspirationbits last blog post..How Do You Twit On Twitter?

4. Jacob Cass (@justcreative) on May 22, 2008 said:

   Anthony,
   Yes I know $5.00 is jaw dropping but I have seen logos go for $1 on Digital Point so that is why I try to educate people about it.

   Vivien,
   Thanks for the tip on the link, don’t know how that got in there, haven’t even seen that page before. And Dosh Dosh’s logo looked so similar to David Airey’s too. And funny thing is that David then goes and designs his logo!

5. David Airey on May 22, 2008 said:

   Jacob,

   I appreciate the links back to my own website. Thanks very much. I guess you’re off travelling any day now?

   Vivien,

   Interesting find on Digital Point. I’d not seen that one.

   David Aireys last blog post..Creative roundup 19 May 2008

6. Wesley Kandel on May 22, 2008 said:

   Good stuff!

7. inspirationbit on May 22, 2008 said:

   Jacob & David:
   I was quite surprised to see Maki’s request on that forum. I also remember all the controversy surrounding his old logo’s resemblance to yours, David. Did you have your blog with the logo up in Nov 2006? Was it possible that your logo did indeed *inspire* the design of DoshDosh’s old logo?

   inspirationbits last blog post..How Do You Twit On Twitter?

8. Jacob Cass (@justcreative) on May 22, 2008 said:

   No worries David. On June 6th is my flight so not long now, just a few weeks~!

9. liam on May 22, 2008 said:

   Great read. And the same applies to pretty much most graphic related work. People need educating, and articles such as this are a great platform for it.

10. Tracey Grady on May 22, 2008 said:

    If the going rate for a logo really were $5 I’d stop eating chocolate tomorrow - and that’s never going to happen

    The fact is that when someone goes to the dentist, they understand that it takes years of specialised training (not to mention specialised equipment) to perform a root canal, and there’s no way their next door neighbour’s son can do it for them (unless he’s a trained dentist too). Not everyone appreciates the training, expertise and effort that go into logo design and all aspects of graphic design. That’s why there will always be clients that need educating. Your article does the job very well.

11. Lindsey on May 22, 2008 said:

    How true! It’s so amazing when you think about just how much a products sales depend on labels and aesthetically pleasing design. Good article!

12. Armen on May 23, 2008 said:

    Jacob, my friend…excellent article. Dugg and Stumbled.

    However, this battle will never end. As long as price means more than quality, there will be logos sold for the same price as lunch!!

    It’s the same for me. I mean, I’m no Jesse Bennett-Chamberlain, but I’ve gained a fairly solid understanding of basic design principles, and it shocks me what people will pay good money for (never mind peanuts), when it comes to web design.

    Armens last blog post..Timber Inspiration - 20 Top-Notch Wooden Web Designs

13. Joshua Schneiderman on May 23, 2008 said:

    I don’t disagree, but there are two major foes of this argument.

    First, in my area, at least, there are professional and expensive designers who still miss the mark. There is a lot of bad logo design in Northeast Iowa - most of it is homemade, plenty of it is professionally done.

    The second is that a great logo, generally doesn’t look like a lot of thought and work were put into it.

    Of course, there’s one more problem that we see a lot around here that precedes the bad logo, and that is the meaningless and trite business name.

14. Jacob Share (@jacobshare) on May 23, 2008 said:

    I particularly agree with Joshua Schneiderman’s comment but I’ll take it further.

    It’s not up to the client to estimate how valuable a designer’s work is, it’s up to the designer to make the client understand why their work is so valuable.

    Or, you can always aim your services at the high-end of the market so that you’ll only have clients who a) do understand that value or b) who falsely claim to do so but have the money to make it worth your while to educate them.

    Jacob Shares last blog post..PureBlogging’s How To Group Writing Project

15. Paul on May 23, 2008 said:

    Excellent, excellent post.

16. Carsten Nielsen on May 23, 2008 said:

    Amen!

17. Jacob Cass (@justcreative) on May 23, 2008 said:

    Liam,
    Well that is the aim
    Tracey,
    Well we wouldn’t want that would we? No chocolate and like you said I am trying to educate.

    Lindsey,
    Packaging design is even worse!

    Armen,
    Thanks Armen for the promo and yes it is a never ending battle. And yes there are people out there with the money to pay so I guess in the end it does come down to the client.

    Joshua,
    Thanks for your added thoughts on the topic and yes, like any argument there are two sides. I agree with you regarding “The second is that a great logo, generally doesn’t look like a lot of thought and work were put into it.” What are some really bad business names you have come across?

    Jacob,
    I suppose you can do it either way like you said but it is always better for the client to be educated.

    Paul,
    Glad you liked it.

18. John on May 23, 2008 said:

    Design, web design, identity are all international services now, but there is no international currency. This creates a problem of inflation/deflation for people in certain regions. In my opinion, a person not willing to shell out dough for a design is not worthy of having a business.

19. Jim Lipsey on May 23, 2008 said:

    It’s interesting that you provide Nike’s logo as a counterexample, given that it was created by a student for $35.

    Rather than comparing the output of a $35 design contest for a specific project to a selection of the finest examples in logo design history, I would have liked to see what a professionally-contracted shop would have produced given nothing more than the exact same 28 word specification.

    Jim Lipseys last blog post..Little Snowballs

20. Jacob Cass (@justcreative) on May 23, 2008 said:

    John,
    I know all too well about the international services. I get contacted probably every 2 weeks (mostly from India) with people wanting to collaborate with me on projects - and they say they will work for $10 or less. Some don’t even have a portfolio which is a bit sad. I wonder how they afford a computer and internet connection if they are working for that?

    Jim,
    Very funny you brought that up because I was going to mention it in the artice but thought it would take way from the point. And yes, that would be interesting to see what they would come up with - it would have made a more rigorous article.

21. Keith on May 23, 2008 said:

    “I wonder how they afford a computer and internet connection if they are working for that?”

    - Because places like India have a currency that equates to a lot less when converted in dollars. It’s all relative my friend. Plus, nice work in the in depth article.

22. Nathan Monk on May 23, 2008 said:

    Excellent article

23. ar-lock on May 23, 2008 said:

    scalable? a 5 minute design can be scalable..

    is it even a logo if its not an svg?
    no its not. its a picture..

24. Dan Cole on May 23, 2008 said:

    Jim & Jacob,
    The Nike logo cost $35 at the time, but the same thing today would cost $200 when you account for inflation. Also, by doing the math on the numbers provided in that link, that logo took ~18 hours to research, sketch, and design. If she had more experience like the average designer, it would be upwards of $400 to $500.

25. Mirko on May 23, 2008 said:

    Why logo design does not cost $5.00? Well… that question shouldn’t even be asked. Anyway your answer is great.

    Mirkos last blog post..Picturing disasters

26. Jack on May 23, 2008 said:

    I’ve never thought about it before, ever. I didn’t realise how bad logos could be and the fact there are people paying $10 for one and asking for tweaks etc?

    I think this must be the first time I have stood on this side of the design fence - the divide between “but it will look good on your portfolio” and “if you pay me professionally then you will get a professional”.

    I’m actually feeling a little depressed at the thought of competition sites/forums. When I started designing I thought they were great opportunities; thankfully I never did enter any!

    Thanks for the post.

    Jacks last blog post..Video Tutorials

27. Jacob Cass (@justcreative) on May 23, 2008 said:

    Keith,
    Thanks for clarifying that. So they try to get jobs overseas so it converts back better into their currency?

    Ar-Lock,
    Well if you design a logo that is ONLY going to based on the web then you could design the logo not in Vector but usually this is not a wise move just in case it ever does goes need to go offline.

    Dan,
    Thanks for that Dan… I couldn’t stand doing maths at 2am!
    18 hours is still a fair amount of time in comparison to the logo design contests. Their process usually consists of them opening their program of choice (usually Firefox surprisingly or not surprisingly I don’t know), and designing the first thing that comes to their head.

    Mirko,
    Well I tried my best to answer it and it does need to be answered because there are logo designs out there going for that much and people do need to be educated.

28. Keith on May 23, 2008 said:

    “Thanks for clarifying that. So they try to get jobs overseas so it converts back better into their currency?”

    Exactly, that’s why outsourcing overseas is so lucrative for many companies.

    Keiths last blog post..Software I use day to day

29. Dirty Scarab on May 23, 2008 said:

    I don’t get out of bed for less than $150 a logo. (but I have been known to charge a considerable amount more than that).

    My main client base is local bands, and unfortunately, local bands aren’t swimming around in boatloads of cash, so I tend to charge on a case by case basis. But yeah, $5?? I’d charge that if the logo took 2 minutes to design…!

30. PublicRecordsGuy on May 23, 2008 said:

    Okay, I’m feeling a little guilty here now for posting contests in Digital Point for cheap logos. Your comparison of the cheap to the professional one, particularly the NBA logo really gave me the “A HA” moment. Job well done. Now if only I can win that logo design contest you offered, since I can’t afford a Professional Logo. Thanks.

    PublicRecordsGuys last blog post..Such a Sad Day For The Chapman Family

31. Bryan D. Hughes (@zigbot) on May 23, 2008 said:

    I’m going to have to disagree to some amount.

    I fully agree with your viewpoint on Spec work, Contests, and the absolute value in hiring a professional designer. I must disagree, however, in that this is a some uphill battle that can be ‘fixed’. There is a gradient of quality and development price evolving into a premium/economy tier system, like any other industry, and one doesn’t necessarily effect the other. In the scale-covered underbelly of the internet (craigslist), there are $50 logos bought and sold all day long, every day, and not one of those parties are in competition with or a potential client of mine.

    A recent prospect asked me before accepting my estimate what the advantages are to hiring me at $50 an hour over hiring an intern or art student. Rather than get offended at the notion, I saw that he honestly didn’t know the difference. The VALUE of a good logo isn’t instantly seen by the public the same way we designers see it, so the argument that a development process that is more involved and costs $4000+ is better than a $50 craigslist logo can seem rather arbitrary. Suddenly it was clear to me that this ‘battle’ with the lower-quality tier of design isn’t a battle at all, but a challenge to my own brand to make the quality of my work apparent to my prospects in an apparent and quantifiable way.

    None of you, or I, are in direct competition with any $5 logo developers, so why be so concerned with it? I’ve seen this debate at time seem almost as if some art student is taking money directly out of wallets. Just do what you do, do it well, and bad business decisions (hiring a $5 logo designer!) will work themselves out accordingly.

    Despite being HORRIBLE for you in every way, people go to McDonald’s for a reason. I doubt the premium steakhouse across the street loses any sleep at night.

32. Beaulys (@beaulys) on May 23, 2008 said:

    Hello Jacob !

    Hey, you know, in France, that’s a problem too. More than a problem, that’s a battle.

    People don’t realize that graphic design is more than a little drawing made in few times for $5 (or 10€ yah ? ), and with the “crowdsourcing” phenomena, now, some start-ups and societies sell design made by amateurs, who are not either engaged or paid (or only the “winner” is paid, well… er… paid $450 and the sellers take 30% of these $450).

    They don’t even know what author rights (That’s it, in English ? Copyrights and propriety stuffs ) are !

    I’m happy to see that denunciations are also made outside my country.

    Keep it up !

33. Doug C on May 23, 2008 said:

    A very important article and even more so for those wanting a logo design. I have encountered a gamut of situations when it comes to this subject. I believe the problem stems from the fact that graphics are basically intangible and so the majority of people can’t comprehend spending a lot of money for them. Now this attitude is especially prevalent with individuals who have no clue about the design process and/or respect for the designer involved. These type of people I tend to steer clear of. On the other hand a client who does understand the process and the work involved is not going to have an issue paying for it. Of course, these types of clients are rare (at least in my experience).

34. Vaughn Sanders on May 23, 2008 said:

    I really like the article. You gave a great explanation.

    I agree that $5 or even $35 is insulting to good/professional designers. However, a few years back when looking for a logo for my consulting business I wasn’t able to get one because of 1) The cost 2) Lack of Good Designer.

    I was quoted $500-$1000 for a logo. As, a non designer, I had no idea what to expect and this was an eye opener. It was much more than I could afford. A few designers had some pretty crappy portfolios too.

    On another note, I wouldn’t say that logos of popular companies are necessarily good. Most are recognizable because of their product and have been around for a long time. Not necessarily because their logo.

35. Steve O on May 23, 2008 said:

    This subject is always a popular one and I see from the comments that no contest entrants have trolled it yet. I put my feelings on this subject across on graphicPUSH’s post and I fall firmly on the side who would like to see competition sites disappear.
    I deal with bad logos every day, killing my soul producing work for estate agents as I do, and it hurts every time I have to compromise. Most of them are obviously designed in Word or using some of the WORST free fonts I have ever seen. New job… soon…

    You might be interested in this post and the one it links to.

36. Per Pettersson on May 23, 2008 said:

    Great post! Yet another reason why more should follow your blog.

    Cheers from Sweden!
    /Per

37. Darren on May 23, 2008 said:

    Loved the article and 100% agree with your opinions on the value of good, thoughtful, intelligent and and above all — creative Graphic Design, particularly when an Identity is concerned. I do think that thankfully the importance of a good logo identity is becoming more apparent in the world around us largely in part to the company’s behind the logo’s you used as reference and the designers that help brand and market them. I mean who here doesn’t like the print design that comes out of Starbucks and Nike. However, I did find it amusing that the Logo’s illustrated as “Professional Logo Design” whilst many millions of dollars have been spent on the branding and re-development of them, originally cost about $5.00 (Disney, Nike, Coke etc) I remember reading an article on Virgins’ Richard Branson saying he paid for the napkin the logo was drawn on. I guess it illustrates that sometimes good ideas come easy to some, but creativity is a gift and should come with a price especially in the business world and for us making a living as graphic designers.
    PS: As Your logo illustrates — long live the pencil and the ideas that flow through it.

38. Jacob Cass (@justcreative) on May 23, 2008 said:

    Keith,
    No wonder I get so many emails from India.

    Scarab,
    Have you thought about raising your prices to see if they would pay it? If you sell your product and yourself then I am sure you will be able to double your money. Give it a shot.

    PublicRecordsGuy,
    Even DoshDosh has posted in Digital Point Forums before but the problem is not everyone knows the problem with it, so that is why I am posting about it. Good luck in the contest I am going through them all and giving them scores.

    Bryan,
    I don’t believe the battle can be fixed either and it is about where you target your market however many people do not know the difference and I am sure if they did know then they would make a more educated decision.

    “It isn’t a battle at all, but a challenge to my own brand to make the quality of my work apparent to my prospects in an apparent and quantifiable way.”

    Amen,however I do believe we are in competition with these cheap designers in some respect (much alike McDonalds and the Steakhouse) because some clients do not know the difference, where as in the food industry it is obvious. For example, not every one my readers are designers however they may be interested in what I write about and now that I have written this article they are now more likely to get a professionally designed logo than from a contest. Do you agree?

    Beaulys,
    I believe it is a problem internationally especially for designers who are just above the starting rate and not fully professional. They have to compete with both amateurs and the professionals and yeah copyright too.

    Doug,
    I agree with what you are saying and that is what I have tried to communicate here in my article however if you try to stay clear of these ‘types of people’ then they will most probably never learn.

    I see it is as our job to educate them. I often get emails from people wanting free logos or “tips” or “concepts” for their logos and I try to educate them on logo design process and now I can point them to this article and the great comments here.

    Vaughn,
    Bryan had a good point on this topic if you read his comment. In the end it is down to the client and their needs however we should be educating them to make a wiser decision.

    In most cases, I believe most popular business logos are quite well designed not just because they have been around a long time. Can you name some that are not well designed?

    Steve O.
    Thanks for those links, I have read them both before and I will add a link to them in my page now and I am with you regarding sites like that disappearing. Thanks.

    Per,
    Glad you enjoyed it. Share the love
    Darren,
    Long live the pencil and yeah gotta love Starbucks and Nike’s design - and Apple. I never knew about Richard Branson and the napkin, pretty interesting. We had a small discussion in the comments regarding the Nike Design if you read about it?

39. kristarella on May 23, 2008 said:

    This is a lot of comments in a day!

    Good post. I agree, which is why I don’t have a logo. I don’t want to try to brand myself with something cheap or something I’m going to hate in a year. At least I don’t have a business that I’m trying to mark – if I was trying to make money it would definitely be worth spending the money for a decent logo.

    Have you seen the Freelance Freedom comics on Freelance Switch?
    http://freelanceswitch.com/fre.....reedom-40/
    http://freelanceswitch.com/fre.....reedom-41/
    http://freelanceswitch.com/fre.....reedom-43/

    Fairly relevant to your dentist story.

    kristarellas last blog post..Tumblr, tweets and twizzles (for shizzle)

40. Jacob Cass (@justcreative) on May 23, 2008 said:

    Thanks Kristarella, I have updated the post with the comics, I always look at those comics, they are great! Thanks for the reminder.

    Your blog is fine for its purpose, it doesn’t need a logo. The nice typeface and illustration does the job.

41. Ricardo on May 23, 2008 said:

    Great article
    

42. Joram Oudenaarde on May 23, 2008 said:

    Darn those people who think we use Word bitmap images to make a logo. And darn those people who make these kind of $5,- logo’s and make clients believe it’s good :/

    But seriously, I really hope they someday, somehow, will see that we’re actually doing research and make a proper and fitting “good” logo for their companies.

43. Karen Swim on May 24, 2008 said:

    As a writer I face many of the same challenges so can totally relate. $5 logos are like $5 articles. You get output, but it will not be quality! I learned a lot from your post on the logo design process. I am certain that many people can use education in this area. In absence of understanding, people default to pricing comparisons. Jo Phillips dugg this post and I’m glad he did. Thank you for illuminating the design process and heightening the respect I have for what you do.

44. Bryan D. Hughes (@zigbot) on May 24, 2008 said:

    Jacob,

    I agree with you completely on that:

    “… I do believe we are in competition with these cheap designers in some respect (much alike McDonalds and the Steakhouse) because some clients do not know the difference, where as in the food industry it is obvious.”

    The issue is awareness, not that the $5 logo contests exist. Some designers talk about Spec Work and Contests as if they’re something that could be stamped out, and that would somehow solve the issue of good design being a complex issue. I expect that if the collective energy of the designers raging against contests and spec work were applied to solving the problem via their own brand, the culture would be much more positively influenced.

45. Kate on May 24, 2008 said:

    Great post, and really timely for me… I just lost a client who got upset when I upped my logo prices versus what I charged six months ago… Given the seminars and classes and just basic time spent with the programs, $500 seems pretty fair, especially considering all the deadline slips, reconcepting, reformatting several times because he used a printer that I recommended against… Basically, a huge headache, so I’m not going to miss his particular business. I do wonder, though, how much more I could have gotten away with charging him.
    Kates last blog post..Designs On Me 1: How I learned to stop worrying and love Command-Z.

46. Michael on May 24, 2008 said:

    The other side is the designers that want to be paid up front and then turn out shit. It goes both ways.

47. kristarella on May 24, 2008 said:

    Michael, I’d be wary of anyone asking you to pay upfront (what other businesses legitimately ask you to do something like that unless they have to fork out heaps for materials, e.g. building a house?).
    That’s also why you look at portfolios, recommendations etc, before approaching the designer, asking them what they can do for you and then telling them you want to shop around.
    There should also be an upfront agreement about the level of adjustment and revisions the designer is willing/obligated to do.
    However, all of those things are redundant if the customer is unwilling to accept the value of a professionally designed logo.

    kristarellas last blog post..Tumblr, tweets and twizzles (for shizzle)

48. Jacob Cass (@justcreative) on May 24, 2008 said:

    Karen,

    I am certain that many people can use education in this area. In absence of understanding, people default to pricing comparisons.

    I think that sums it up. Thanks to Jon for digging it, as always.

    Bryan,
    As you will have noticed in the comments from people reading the blog that people do appreciate the education. For example what Karen just said “Thank you for illuminating the design process and heightening the respect I have for what you do.” I also believe that designers need to find a line between education and speculation. For example, I do not charge thousands for a logo however there are many people that do, but it is not the target I am catering for so I must show the difference between what my business offers instead of the contests.

    Kate,
    Maybe if the article was written a little earlier you could have shown him and he would have changed his mind?

    Michael,
    The way around that is to get a deposit upfront, say 50%, and then the final 50% on completion. That way the client and the designer have control over the whole process. If the client doesn’t like the designs at first then they can pull out if they want to. What do you think?

    And as Kristarella said, you should be looking at their portfolio first to judge if their designs are going to work for you.

49. Kate Moon on May 24, 2008 said:

    “Maybe if the article was written a little earlier you could have shown him and he would have changed his mind?”

    I actually bookmarked it in case he refused to pay! I’ll be keeping it handy for sure.

    Kate Moons last blog post..Designs On Me 1: How I learned to stop worrying and love Command-Z.

50. kost on May 25, 2008 said:

    The nike logo was done by a design student, for 25$.. so you never know..

51. Jacob Cass (@justcreative) on May 25, 2008 said:

    Kost, have a read in the comments, we have been discussing the Nike logo if interested.

52. Mayhem Studios on May 25, 2008 said:

    If you guys like comics. You may find this little gif animation very funny.

    http://www.mayhemstudios.com/H.....signer.gif

53. Mayhem Studios on May 25, 2008 said:

    Regarding Spec Work. Looks like 99 Designs and Sitepoint is at it again!

    99 Designs is sponsoring a free pdf version of the book, “The Photoshop Anthology: 101 Web Design Tips, Tricks & Techniques.”

    The book looks more like for newbies. This is their way of suckering newbie designers into their Spec Contest web site!

    In order for you to get the download link. You need to enter your email address. Yet another way to get you on their mailing list.

54. Jacob Cass (@justcreative) on May 26, 2008 said:

    Thanks for the comic, I stumbled onto that a while back!

    Doesn’t look like it is going to end anytime soon regarding contests - it never will.

55. Mayhem Studios on May 26, 2008 said:

    Unfortunately, you’re correct! The thing that gets me is that, designers are adding to all the spec work and contest too. They don’t care unless it affects them.

    As a NoSpec committee member, I’m glad to see that NoSpec has done some good. Many companies have change their practices because of the No Spec campaigns.

    - Cal

56. Jesse on May 27, 2008 said:

    I couldn’t agree further.

    Just came across this article:
    http://www.wired.com/wired/arc.....html?pg=13

57. Website Design on May 28, 2008 said:

    Great post! I think a lot of people don’t realize the time and effort that goes into things like website design, logo design / branding, etc. For many, they are unable to see it as a tangible item and have difficulty justifying any substantial cost.

58. modemlooper on May 28, 2008 said:

    This is a must! => Are these logos effective without colour?

    and less is more with logo design

    modemloopers last blog post..How To Optimize Your Blog Post Images For Mobile

59. Jacob Cass (@justcreative) on May 28, 2008 said:

    Ryan,
    No link?

60. J. Jeffryes on May 29, 2008 said:

    Does the Porsche dealer get upset when they see people paying $500 for a beat up used Station Wagon?

    Our challenge is that some potential Porsche buyers don’t know the difference between a Porsche and a Station Wagon. We need to educate them so they buy Porsches.

    Our other challenge is some designers don’t know the difference between someone that wants a Porsche and someone that wants a Station Wagon. We need to educate them so they stop trying to sell the wrong people Porsches.

61. Craig on May 30, 2008 said:

    Great article, I think one of the most import things with a logo is that it has to be one that can still represent the company if it gets switched to grey scale (without color). It also has to be memorable.

62. design snob on May 30, 2008 said:

    So, is a LOGO more valuable than a photograph or a font? Many of the same designers who are crying about spec work are downloading free fonts, stock photos, and design elements, dingbats, etc. Why should photographers and font designers get the short end of the stick. I enter these spec contests because its great practice to try and knock out a passable logo in under an hour. The design community tends to be whiny and self important it seems. Do you really think issues of branding and scalability mean anything to the guy starting out his business as a local cleaning company? He just needs a nice logo done quickly
    Doesn’t the guy with 3000 in startup money for his business deserve quality work? Designers seem to think the visual identity they are providing a company is more important than the company itself. Its really just window dressing ultimately, get over it.

63. Jeremy Delane on May 30, 2008 said:

    Excellent Post -
    I really enjoyed your comparison to visiting the dentist. I recently put in a brief bid on a job and the client asked if I would consider doing the job for free and in turn be allowed to use it in my portfolio. Interestingly the client was a small finance company? So after some contemplation I decided to respond by agreeing to do the work, if their company was interested in providing zero interest small business loans for an extended period of time. After what was apparently a brief period of laughter, they responded with “we’ll find someone to do it for free.” Unfortunately they will and this problem will continue.

    Jeremy Delanes last blog post..Providing Website Consulting and Evaluation to the Waukesha Area

64. Don on May 30, 2008 said:

    Great article, man. A ton of my clients are going to get this link.

65. Jacob Cass (@justcreative) on May 30, 2008 said:

    J. Jeffryes,
    A good analogy you have there. What do you think is the best way of educating clients / other designers?

    Craig,
    Some good points, did you read Jeff Fishers logo design interview? He actually mentioned never confine yourself to “rules”. It is a very interesting and educational interview indeed.

    Design Snob,
    Each to their own opinion they may say but have you read any of the articles that I posted in the article above? You may change your views if you do.

    “I enter these spec contests because its great practice to try and knock out a passable logo in under an hour.”

    I wonder how many of these start up business you are designing for last out for more than 3 years? Issues of branding will mean a lot to someone who has business sense however the problem we have is that not everyone does.

    A logo is “really just window dressing ultimately, get over it.” I wonder why Coca Cola’s brand is worth 8 Billion dollars then?

    Hope you come back to continue this discussion as you’re the first person in this discussion not to oppose Spec Work so far.

    Jeremy Delane,
    Haha, good on ya and yes it will continue but we can lessen it by educating people.

    Don,
    Cheers Don and thanks for the link out on your blog!

66. J. Jeffryes on May 30, 2008 said:

    @Jacob

    It’s very simple, really. When I was running my design studio, I was running a professional company. And I acted like it. My site, my card, my correspondence, all of it was done professionally. When I met clients, I informed them that projects required 50% up front. Anything more complicated than a logo or infographic required a separate (and separately paid for) discovery period before an estimate would be issued.

    Usually that was enough for clients to “get it.” Most of the designers they dealt with acted like desperate amateurs. I studied the businesspeople I worked with/for, and acted like they did, like a person worth the money they are being paid. A lawyer doesn’t haggle over prices, they tell you their rates, and when you balk, they walk away.

    Sure, there were times clients freaked out and told me they thought my rates were too high. When that happened I told them my rates were for top of the line work, and that if their company wasn’t successful enough to need that kind of work, I would be happy to recommend less experienced designers I knew that might be able to deliver a less polished product.

    More than once I had clients come back to me after I said that, after they had tried cheaper designers, and ask me to come back and redo the project for them. Sometimes for more than my original estimate. The ones that didn’t aren’t clients I would have wanted.

    You have to believe you have a premium product, and you have to make the client believe that. As long as you don’t believe you are worth more than a $50 logo, you never will be.

67. Jacob Cass (@justcreative) on May 31, 2008 said:

    J. Jeffreys,
    
    First off before you try to reply, there is something wrong with the comments field. I edited the post to add something in and once I saved it, the comments turned off and I went to turn them back on, (both trackbacks and comments) however it did not work so no one can leave comments except for me. This has happened to about 5 other articles of mine (all usually pretty popular articles with many comments) so not sure what is up, some bug I presume. Any idea? Fixed.

    Regarding your comment however that is a good way of looking at it… I was actually reading the How To Freelance Like A Rockstar eBook on the weekend about pricing yourself and they had a pretty good basic formula to follow as well and they mentioned some of the things you just said.”You have to believe you have a premium product, and you have to make the client believe that.”

68. Staniel on Oct 19, 2008 said:

    There have been many organizations that have paid a lot of money for poorly designed logos. The price you pay for a logo does not guarantee anything.

    I will agree that your chances for a great logo decrease greatly when you aim below the $20 mark or try to obtain a logo via an online contest. There have been many low budget logo contests and logo design portfolios that use stock photography or clip-art in their logos. These should obviously be avoided. Knowing what final files you will receive and if the designer will stand behind their design is very important as well.

    Logo design is no different than everything else in this world. If you look hard enough…you can find a great deal!

69. Jennifer Harris on Oct 21, 2008 said:

    I wrote a similar blog but not as indepth. it has a good little story to go with it…..

    http://keylimecreative.ca/2008.....your-logo/

    Jennifer Harris | Graphic Designer | Key Lime Creative

70. Jacob Cass (@justcreative) on Oct 21, 2008 said:

    Thanks Jennifer, another great article, it was more in depth than this one in my opinion. It took a different look on it anyway. Thank you.

71. Sergio Ordóñez on Nov 1, 2008 said:

    Hello Jacob, superb post

    In my experience most of those clients sell their sites, leave the project or change the concept of their sites in short time. They are webmasters with hundred of domains and the hope of fast money is higher than the hope of building a brand, no planning needed.

    What I mean is there is people with serious projects who are hoping to spend good money for good work and others who just want to reach the top in a few months, if they dont get it then the site is sold… so why to spend more than 5US$?.

    Cheers.

72. Jacob Cass (@justcreative) on Nov 2, 2008 said:

    Hi Sergio,
    Thanks for the comment, I can see where you are coming from, and it is true in some respects but obviously not everyone has hundreds of domains so it depends on your background and plans I suppose. Also, love your work on SOS.

73. Justin on Nov 12, 2008 said:

    The only thing is that the Nike logo was not designed by some amazing firm, but by a student at Portland State University in 1971 charging $2 an hour and receiving $35 for the final design of the swoosh.
    http://www.dinesh.com/History_.....d_History/

74. Aleron on Nov 13, 2008 said:

    I do agree with most of this artical, but the point about the dentist was incorrect. In fact, if the work is not satisfactory, you do not legally have to pay, as they have violated their part of the agreement.
    If you went to a dentist and they did a bad job on your teeth you would not expect to pay, and in fact, if they had damaged your teeth, you would want compensation.

75. wallpapers on Nov 27, 2008 said:

    surely those professional logos have a higher impact because of the amount of exposure they’ve had over the years - had you never seen them before you might not think them so great

76. Audio Converter on Dec 4, 2008 said:

    Very Good

77. leou on Dec 9, 2008 said:

    very good!Great read
    my english is so bad.
    and,I translate this article to chinese.
    I think,Chinese designer must look this article more than the other designers!

    and ,this is the add of chinese version.
    http://i.yoho.cn/ileou/logview/1158514_1_0.html

78. Lewis Cuellar on Dec 10, 2008 said:

    Did you know I had a man willing to pay 40 bucks for a company logo that is well advertised? “giggle giggle..r u serious sir?” This guy was going to shoot me when I told him at least 400.00. CS4 only costs 1300.00. IMAC 2000.00. Illustrator like 4-600. HAHA..so excellent point about the money put in to a logo. Thanks for the read!

79. Lawrence Anderson on Dec 15, 2008 said:

    What a great post Jacob!

    We need more designers out there driving this point home. I hope that may be sites like IncSpring will offer a no-spec alternative to contest sites for young designers looking to build a portfolio.

    Keep up the great work,
    -Lawrence

80. JanSimpson on Dec 30, 2008 said:

    The reason people dont’ put much weight into Logos - is because the way you treat the “logo” - you treat it as a one shot deal this is how designers market the Logo design - “logo” means one - “one” means one-time deal -”one-time deal” means one payment - you are trying to get the “golden co” to make you instantly rich and reputable all in one shot. So you sell your logo cheaply - and then wonder why no one beleives it is about - now wait for it…

    Wonder why no one associates the logo with their brand - which is a life time of the company? even a small business owner doesn’t believe his business will go under - so sell it properly and you will will begin to get the respect you deserve - but that is all I am going to give you on this one.

81. Flo on Dec 31, 2008 said:

    I totally agree, most people don’t underestimate the importance of logos. At the end of the day the logo is (in many cases) the first point of contact between a company and their customers - and the first impression needs to be a good one…Spend the money and get it right the first time!

82. Graham on Dec 31, 2008 said:

    Jacob, this article is incredibly insightful. It certainly will help when justifying costing to clients.

    Great again!

83. jay k on Jan 3, 2009 said:

    That is very very true, I like the way you stated that.

    thanks man,

    keep up the hard work!

    Jay

84. costas voyatzis on Jan 3, 2009 said:

    For sure a logo doesn’t worth $5.00

    Thank you Jacob for sharing this article!! And be sure that all the Graphic designers in the world will really appreciate it!!!!!!!!

    HAPPY NEW YEAR

    Best regards

    Costas

    PS. by the way I would love to read your opinion about the “yatzer” logo!

85. prateek on Jan 6, 2009 said:

    Wow!
    my sentiments exactly! This is the first time i have read such an intelligent and sensible article on logo design. the importance of logo design must never be underrated..When people realise this, we will have more interesting companies floating around with a definitive goal..bad logo means no goal..simple. thanks dude for such an enlightenment..

    btw..nike got their logo designed for 25$ way back in 1972..hahah..irony or not but i think that the overall stature of a company and the kind of products that they make also helps in making a logo popular and worth remembering..

    after a long time have i commented so long on a blog post..wow!

86. Andy on Jan 15, 2009 said:

    Awesome blog post.

87. Christian on Jan 18, 2009 said:

    Yeah, I completely understand where you’re coming from on this article.I see those generic logos all the time and IMO their fine for something like a small blog, or personal website. You know, something only a few people ever visit,but something like a company needs a professional logo and even small bussinesses need to step up and get them. Pay a little (relatively speaking) for it, you will thank yourself later.

88. Mohammad Afaq on Jan 27, 2009 said:

    Great artice, I just love it.

89. Daniel on Feb 8, 2009 said:

    Personally I feel that a logo doesn’t really mean a lot being a freelance designer myself. Don’t get me wrong, they need to be eye catching, but a logo won’t make a company successful, but a successful company will make a logo recognizable globally. The reason why those logos listed above are so recognizable is not because of the design itself, but because of how huge that company has become. If you consistently see a logo day in and day out, it will naturally stick to your mind no matter what design it is.

    Personally, the ‘Jeep’ logo is one of my favourites.

90. Web Design Rates on Feb 11, 2009 said:

    Logo is a “business card” of a website. That’s why it should be designed very well and should have unique concept. This is the reason why it costs so much.

91. Steve Constable on Feb 15, 2009 said:

    Those logos are so disparate in style. It’s hard to believe it was done by the same person. That’s not a bad thing. But most designers have one style.

    OK, my vote is for the Red, Black and Gray with the cool bent Piano keys. That rocks!!!

92. Mauricio Hernández Gonzalez on Feb 21, 2009 said:

    I completely agree with your article, here in my country Colombia, Southamerica are some called “graphic designers” who doesn’t know everything about desing and only know how to use CorelDraw as “the most professional tool” and they offer horrible services and products like: “your logo only in five minutes”. That’s why the profession of graphic designer is underestimated.

    Thanks.

93. Stanton on Feb 21, 2009 said:

    Great post, I wholeheartedly agree! I’ve been a graphic designer for years, and freelance when I can. But I also work at a retail print shop, and when I’m there, I HATE being asked to design a logo. The shop doesn’t charge enough, and what they do charge is for them, I get the paid the same no matter what I do. Bad.

    People who want cheap logos are not stupid, just ignorant. It’s up to us to educate them.

94. BenSky on Feb 22, 2009 said:

    Totally aggree, there’s always going to be a demand for people to churn out rubbish logos at silly costs because some people dont have the money to spend.. If they realised the impact and power the brand and logo can achieve, they’d most probably start saving.
    Clients are generally extremely undereducated in what they are buying as far as design goes, they see it as a logo is a logo, they’re all the same!
    I like to compare it to the difference between a Rolls Royce and a Ford, you generally get what you pay for!

95. designer on Feb 26, 2009 said:

    cool article.

96. w3logo on Mar 4, 2009 said:

    A corporate logo design should be highly instrumental in building your corporate identity and should successfully exude the company’s attitude. The viewers must have some idea about the disposition, character, or fundamental values of your company through your logo.

    Following certain basic principles can ensure that your corporate logo design is professional easy to remember and creates a great impact on its viewers while successfully expressing the nature of your business.

97. Debby on Mar 5, 2009 said:

    I’ve thoroughly enjoyed reading the article and comments. Seems to come down to value. I admire those who ask for the value of their work. It is a reflection of who you are and your inner light.

    Jacob and others who are educating the uninitiated about logo design promote a worthy cause. Frustrating to have to compete against the out-sourcing and cheap labor.

    Continue your high quality designs and support each other in this community.

    blessings to all,
    Debby, CHOM http://twitter.com/DebbyBruck

98. rich on Mar 10, 2009 said:

    It is frustrating to see the logo contests all over the place and the emergence of the $5 logo design.I am amazed at how design has become such a commodity, the internet and access to low cost labor has been a primary cause of this trend is unlikely to stop anytime soon. As you state it is part of the professional designers job to educate the client and show them the value as your article does. Like anything in life you get what you pay for, people that are looking for a deal will go for the cheap logo contests and will probably not be in business for long. Clients that understand the value of their image and brand will pay for a professional to co create it with them. Thanks for the well written and illustrated examples between a $5 and professional logo.

99. Paris Vega on Mar 20, 2009 said:

    Hey Jacob,
    One of my design professors used to say that you should ask a client if they would be willing to rent a professional logo for $1 a day for year. This was used to set up a base price of at least $365.

    Of course, a logo / company brand is worth much more than that as you’ve done a great job of explaining.
    -Paris

100. Diana Evans on Mar 20, 2009 said:

     wonderful post…I agree with you totally!!!

101. Charlene on Mar 26, 2009 said:

     BRILLIANT! Thank you for writing this article.

102. Poodle on Mar 31, 2009 said:

     The problem with all this is - the majority of small businesses that need a logo WOULD be quite happy with a $5 effort. I see it all the time in my local area - small businesses with ‘logos’ which consist of nothing more than the business name in italics using two colours or the name initials in a circle or square.

     The thought of them spending $200+ on a ’simple icon’ (their idea not mine) would be ridiculous. So on the flip side many graphic designers out price themselves for what is ultimately needed.

     There’s a balance needed.

103. Valentine's Gift on Apr 16, 2009 said:

     $5.00 only???hm…..that’s very cheap. Id companies really like to have quality logos they must provide big budgets…hehehe

104. Sebastian Fabara on Apr 20, 2009 said:

     Hello Jacob great article, here in Ecuador, South America, we have the same problem but even worst, Print Shops do it for free in order to catch the work…

     Well If you agree with me I will say that logos will also have to be reproduced in many other ways with out losing effectiveness, like embroidering, engraving, etc.

     Good luck!

105. Patience on Apr 27, 2009 said:

     Thanks for the informative article. I am starting a new business, and looking for custom logo design. I really cannot afford a $700 logo, and 300 is stretching it…what do you think someone like me should do? I understand the importance of a quality logo, and I am willing to pay what it is worth if I could afford it. Are there any designers who would except installments? Should I just use a text logo or cheap one to get the business off the ground then upgrade to a quality logo later?

106. Jacob Cass (@justcreative) on Apr 27, 2009 said:

     Patience,
     Get quotes from the designers work that you like and see if any of them are around your budget… some designers may accept instalments however I am not entirely sure who does but I would say to get the logo up front rather than later.

107. Patience on Apr 28, 2009 said:

     Thanks for the advice…I have already tried 5 designers so far.. three said no-way (nicely) and two didn’t respond. So, I guess I will keep on searching. Thanks again for the article and the imput

108. Andy on Apr 28, 2009 said:

     Great post Jacob. It infuriates me when people just don’t understand logos or any graphic design takes time to do well, therefore justifying what we charge. One of the best quotes I’ve heard was from one of my uni lecturers: “Fast food is cheap and nasty. Restaurant food takes time and is pricey but well worth it in the end. The same applies to bad Graphic Design and great Graphic Design.” I’ve never been on the Deisgn Point forums but I’ve seen some doozeys on Logo Sauce competitions, it’s a good source of humour at times!

109. Ares on May 7, 2009 said:

     Anyone who buys a logo for $5 gets what they paid for. And you can trust that in the end they will have paid MUCH MORE THAN $5! They will lose thousands or more by projecting such an unprofessional, cheapskate image!

110. Nur Rachmat on May 9, 2009 said:

     great articles…

     I am browsing the net to have idea before having a Logo

     Thanks

111. How to make a website on May 12, 2009 said:

     Hi Jacob,

     I am very very impressed with your blog post.
     “Make a website and aslo create a logo brand for yourself so you are remembered.” Great post!

     You have impressed upon the right point of price we pay vis-a-vis the ultimate goal of creating a brand image so that people remember us. Great example to compare with the other market options.

     Best wishes

112. john - design northampton on May 14, 2009 said:

     The problem with logo design is clients always weigh up the finished product rather than the logic and work behind it. Logos are becoming more and more complex because of this and not having the desired effect. I wonder how much the owner of nike would be prepared pay for his tick now?

113. Brent on May 15, 2009 said:

     I agree that it has become very tough to get a logo designed and still make money. It is such a competitive space and a global industry. So many people are supplying everywhere.

     If you are good though you will be able to charge high rates, and still make money. Be sure to keep to your guns and don’t decrease your rates. Its important to go after the right customers.

114. Logo Design USA on May 18, 2009 said:

     Thanks, i was really search for a post where i could find all about logo design and it’s cost.

115. Chris Rosepapa on May 19, 2009 said:

     You are right on with your article. A good brand and logo takes hard work and research. And it withstands time. I hate to see young designers give their skills away. This is the only industry that seems to have to prove itself.

116. webwires on May 20, 2009 said:

     Sorry but you are so completely out of touch. The main difference with your list of good logos is that they are all big corporations that can afford your services.

     A vast majority of businesses struggle to afford many of the basic components to run a business. Perhaps if they survive after their first year, which 90% do not, then they might have some funds to re-design their logo which is a valid option.

117. Sebastian R. on May 21, 2009 said:

     Do u mind if i translate this article to spanish? for published on my tumblr.

118. Jan on May 21, 2009 said:

     Very well said!

119. Logo Design USA on May 27, 2009 said:

     Grate insight! thanks for sharing

120. Bruno on May 29, 2009 said:

     Awesome post, but, nowadays, we have to consider three points:

     1.We have a lot of designers professionals. And I know professionals who accept work for a cheap price. They work, a lot, just for passion, with hope about some day, make their companies grown.

     2.They need money. Linked with the first point, clients can cheap it. They can cheap because we have a lot of designer professionals.

     3.Clients don’t care between a professional design and just a good or an ‘ok’ design.

     How to solve this problems? I´m really trying hard to discover.

     Congrats for the post.

121. KoolDesigning USA on May 30, 2009 said:

     Nice article, thanks for posting here.

     I think quality of business logo is most important, it should be unique, custom, creative which represent our business or brand in front of customer or consumer.

122. Davidlevack on Jun 6, 2009 said:

     I think the ONLY solid reason anyone needs for not charging 5$, that cannot be refuted (reflection? sounds like an opportunity to milk money to the average joe.) for a logo, is that the designer is only paid once, where as the logo is used countless times with no royalties. A good example is SUPERMAN. Sold for something like 50 dollars and making DC comics millions upon millions.

     A logo equates money. Either from being recognizable so people use that service or company first, or can be commercialized and sold.

123. Bad Logo on Jun 11, 2009 said:

     Well, lets put it this way I work for a company that has a bad logo. A seriously bad logo. I’v worked a s designer so I mind. And apparently so do many of our would be customers.

     It has the following problems:

     You can’t get it to fit on most commercial slots without making it way too small to see. Not entirely the logo makers fault but could have been solved

     It uses a few very hard to print colors. Which amongst others are outside of the gamut of most printers.

     It sends a opposite message our marketing material says.

     It comes with a corporate look, with things such as in design templates for printed material. Which incidentally look like something done by person more familiar with word. Horror it has rules like type 6 enters between this and that. YOU SERIOUS, that’s whet the frigging styles are there for.

     Thing is they actually paid 15000$ for all of this. Me personally I’d thorwn it out.

     As for the other point here, if you charge for less then you deserve. You will soon notice that they don’t THINK you deserve.

124. Saikat on Jun 21, 2009 said:

     Your article is good but I feel it also does carry a bit of frustration and ego somewhere.

     But I am keen to know if there are really people out there making a logo for $5.

125. EricO (@ericinLA) on Jun 24, 2009 said:

     So, Jacob, I wondered in your design contest examples, which design DID win? You didn’t mention what the finalist design was, and though none are as memorable as NBA or Coke, I’m still curious!

126. ashley (@asher2789) on Jul 1, 2009 said:

     i just thought id post my two cents for the opposite argument:

     1. most small businesses have a tiny tiny tiny budget and cannot afford ‘professional’ logo designs upwards of $500 or more. what they need is something that looks good, and works in a small variety of formats and colours. their local designers balk at such low prices (understandable, we all have bills to pay) so the business owner is forced to go on the internet looking for less expensive design that is still of decent quality.

     now a couple of scenarios can take place -

     a) the owner stumbles upon a site like design point and sees that people are getting ‘logos’ for $30, and thinks to himself, not bad, and posts up his own competition. what he gets, you will never know how high of a quality it will be, but at least its not so bad of a loss if the quality is shit and needs to be redone by a better designer.

     b) the owner stumbles onto a slightly better but still spec site like crowdspring, where the logo minimum is $200… thats not cheap (in the owners mind), but still far less for far more (quantity wise at least) than the local designers fees. he posts a project, and gets decent results. unfortunately, 99 out of the 100 designers didnt get paid for their work. but the owner isnt thinking about that, because his nephew could always pump something out of word in less than an hour and be passable (in his mind).

     c) he goes onto craigslist and posts a job for $50 and hires a student/starving artist. who knows, he may get great work or he may get crap. not too bad of a loss though, money wise if the logo is crap.

     why does this happen? logo contest sites fill a void, where the business owner is in need of something passable but has little to no budget. the internet is global, and to us westerners $50 might seem like nothing but to someone from a poor country it may be a months pay. the playing field is completely unlevel, and the design contest sites thrive off of that. also, with this great recession, some decent designers who could otherwise make well on their own are forced to find new ways to make money (again, we all have bills to pay) so they swallow their pride and join a contest site. or in my case, im in college, i need practice, and i need money (desperately, cause FASFA f’d me over again!). there are no design jobs for someone of my qualifications in my area (and i live close enough to NYC, thats how bad the economy is).. so i am forced to turn no where else. do i plan on doing spec work forever? no. i only work on projects i like, and thats it. ive actually been fairly successful on crowdspring, because i focus on t shirt design which isnt as over saturated as logo design (which im not as good at anyways).

     question - how do you feel about the immensely popular but technically spec work t shirt websites like threadless or design by humans (or a bunch of other sites)? many designers that did well on those sites have made themselves terrific careers designing, such as collisontheory, wotto, dchtwenty, members of the black rock collective, tom burns, and olly moss.. (and im probably forgetting a few)

127. Wicker on Jul 6, 2009 said:

     It’s not up to the client to estimate how valuable a designer’s work is, it’s up to the designer to make the client understand why their work is so valuable.

     Or, you can always aim your services at the high-end of the market so that you’ll only have clients who a) do understand that value or b) who falsely claim to do so but have the money to make it worth your while to educate them.

128. Roberto Blake (@robertoblake) on Jul 9, 2009 said:

     This was very well said sir, and I couldn’t agree with you more. Spec work is responsible for the mediocrity we see all too often in the industry right now. As much as the phrase “Your Reputation is Everything,” gets thrown around you would think people would understand your “Brand” is your “Name”, and that they should really think about who they want to make that investment with.

129. Nick Chiechi (@CSDesignworks) on Jul 13, 2009 said:

     I know what it takes to create a logo. On average it could take 13 hours to fully develop a logo. Many times even more. Consider to following calculations on time spent. Meet with client (1), research competitors (1) , explore design options (6), present to client (1), make client revisions (2), and finalize and prepare final artwork (2). In addition to the point about software and hardware costs, consider the years spent in design school. Do the math.

     I know there is a market for the cheapo logo design just like cheapo everything else. But the adage “you get what you pay for” usually prevails. Many times an inferior logo just has to be recreated eventually. A business’ visual identity will be established with its customers good or bad. And to have a logo redesigned is no easy task that can set a company’s brand image back to square one. This can create confusion and unfamiliarity when the new logo is launched.

     A well-designed logo is an essential component for building a successful visual brand. It is a vital first impression and can play a critical role in establishing credibility for a company.

130. akrokdesign on Jul 16, 2009 said:

     being cheap has a higher price, later on!

131. Ashutosh on Jul 28, 2009 said:

     I would pay more for logo design because it is the identity of a site and it should attract peoples attention in just one glimpse.

132. micka|services (@mickaservices) on Jul 29, 2009 said:

     As a graphic designer and web developer here in the Philippines I find your article very helpful for me to decide how much would I charge for a logo design but on deep thoughts when money is involve specially on $=Php it comes a major turn around, shall I charge in $ on in Pesos? thats the big questioned every new designer has to answer.

     “I want to change the world but I dont have the password”

133. Mauricio (@zelticfrost) on Jul 30, 2009 said:

     Hi i just want to ask for your permission to translate this article to Spanish, and maybe publish it on some design blogs in spanish, off course ill give all credits to the writter.

     by the way thanks for doing this great content

134. David on Jul 30, 2009 said:

     That is one helluva an case man. Tell ‘em. You weep when you go cheap!

135. Tim Heffley on Aug 3, 2009 said:

     I recently paid $99 for a logo. It’s not too bad, considering the cost. But it leaves me with kind of an empty feeling when I look at it. This logo doesn’t truly represent my website; instead it looks like I found a sticker in a Cracker Jack box that was close enough and slapped it on there. I hate to lose the $99 but I don’t think this will last very long.

136. design traveller on Aug 6, 2009 said:

     Great article! Being a real designer means you have to learn to fight for the quality, not only for pleasing the clients. Somehow everyone thinks that they have a sublime taste
     But it takes years to learn about aestethics.

137. Joshua (@ocdesignstudio) on Aug 11, 2009 said:

     I’ll admit, I agree with everything you’ve said here. I’m more curious as to how to break into the market of mid to high-dollar logo design. It’s no easy task.

138. asks on Aug 11, 2009 said:

     great article! can you help me how to set the logo price? i mean is the price just fixed or depend on client’s background (well established/new company) ?

139. Harprabhjot Paul Chandhoke (@hdegreeglobal) on Aug 11, 2009 said:

     Well said. Loved this article. Clients tend to behave in a rather unusual way when it comes to the payment of services, which we as designers, are completely entitled to. Its a disgrace to them as well as to our profession.

140. John Mayer on Aug 12, 2009 said:

     ar-lock on May 23, 2008 said: scalable? a 5 minute design can be scalable.. is it even a logo if its not an svg? no its not. its a picture..

     Well, I guess coca-cola doesn’t have a logo, then, since their logo, and countless others, were done long before there was such a thing as an SVG.

141. Vicki Lovegrove (@73design) on Aug 14, 2009 said:

     FINALLY!!!! Someone who is talking sense.

     It drives me mad, why people would think that paying buttons for a logo would get them something that would represent their company for many years to come.

     We pride ourselves on designing logos that last and are constantly turning away work because people don’t want to pay us for it. People value other professions such as law, accountants, but design is looked down on just because they have a package on their computer that uses pretty colours.

142. Outsourcing to Pakistan on Aug 21, 2009 said:

     Really, I like this post too much. thanks for sharing and I think this article is too important for designer as well for business owners.

     Thanks again for this great informative post.

143. Eagle Imagery (@Eagle_Imagery) on Aug 23, 2009 said:

     Not all of those ‘famous’ logos you show are actually all that good. They’re instantly recognisable, sure, but *only* through years and years of branding. Logos don’t ‘just do it’ on their own and the sooner graphic designers realise this, the better.

144. Doug C. on Aug 23, 2009 said:

     I always get emails from people wanting design work from me either for free or next to nothing. This is quite an insult, since I am a professional designer. Personally I think a lot of people really don’t understand what a graphic designer does, because what we produce isn’t a tangible object you can hold in your hands (like say groceries or a new HDTV) and so it’s easy to assume that it doesn’t have much value or that it’s easy to do. My hope is that people will read Jacob’s article and come away with a better understanding of the designing process and the people who make such designs.

145. Eagle Imagery (@Eagle_Imagery) on Aug 23, 2009 said:

     Doug C. Next time you get one of those, send them this:

     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj5IV23g-fE

     Required viewing for all moochers.

     

146. Doug C. on Aug 24, 2009 said:

     Mark, that’s awesome. And I love Harlan Ellison. One of the best sci-fi writers around. I remember reading his stories as a kid - Jefty is Five, I Have No Mouth But I Must Scream, The Tick-Toc Man. Great stuff.

147. Doug C. on Aug 24, 2009 said:

     Oh, and by the way - Jacob I love what you did with the NO!SPEC logo. Should offer that to NO!SPEC. They might use it.

148. Eagle Imagery (@Eagle_Imagery) on Aug 24, 2009 said:

     Glad you liked it. I often watch that vid - cheers me up no end!!!

149. Andy Green (@andygreen101) on Aug 27, 2009 said:

     Good post Jacob, unfortunately it is something that will never change. Just like with several other areas on the web (web design, programming, writing, etc), the logo design market is driven by demand. The fact is that there is just such a high demand for quick and cheap logo’s that the supply automatically turns up to fulfil these requests such as those on Digital Point.

     Not every web site owner cares about their brand or whether the logo is scalable or not. They probably only spent $15 putting the rest of the site together so they are unlikely to spend anything on the logo.

     Sad, but unfortunately true.

150. Jo Holloway (@sunpennypublish) on Aug 31, 2009 said:

     Well, it’s a good article and lots of good comments, but I’m going to throw in another point of view here - not only re logo design as such but also graphic work and artist’s illustrations generally. As a purchaser, I have been bitten several times, badly, by seeing an artist’s work online, being sent samples of their work that prove they are a fit for what I am requesting - contracting and giving downpayments, and then getting work that is totally wrong. I contracted an logo/graphic designer to give me 6 different sketches to choose from, before he finished the logo I chose. They were all totally wrong for our brand, but he had to be paid anyway - and he wasn’t cheap. I’ve had book illustrators send me samples of specific types that were perfect style, but when the work itself finally arrived it was nothing like the samples they’s sent - but I had to pay, and then in the disasterously short time left before deadline had to find another artist to do the job.

     Just saying … another perspective. If the artist doesn’t at least submit a few initial sketch ideas to be sure he/she is on the same thought path as the buyer, anything can happen, and the buyer gets burned as often as not.

     And, by the way, spec work is very common in all forms of the arts, though I feel that if you are actually wanting a commission for a specific job, you should be willing to at least put out a bit of what you’re offering. That’s what TENDERS are all about, too. So - sorry, I think although you make some good points here, you might be being just a little bit precious and self-absorbed. LOL! I mean that in the NICEST possible way, of course.

151. Eagle Imagery (@Eagle_Imagery) on Aug 31, 2009 said:

     Jo, perhaps you seek designers with a guarantee and… reputation.

     

152. Jo Holloway (@sunpennypublish) on Aug 31, 2009 said:

     LOL! Eagle: They burn ya too! And there’s no guarantee they’re going to “see” what you’re seeing. The only way to KNOW they are, is to see initial sketches.

     Point is though, there are systems of checks and balances right through most professions. Even when you are commissioned to write, say, a screenplay, they can dump you if they don’t like what you’re producing. Why not graphic designers?

     Writers have to do it, not to mention a whole range of other artistes, and other professions right through to building contractors, film makers, etc.

     But if you mean I should only employ the Spielbergs of the design world: yeah, when I win the lottery. LOL! And even then, it’s my money I’m taking a chance with. And even Spielberg has had quite a few bombs.

153. Eagle Imagery (@Eagle_Imagery) on Aug 31, 2009 said:

     Sure. What’s your point?

154. Douglas Bonneville (@dbonneville) on Sep 13, 2009 said:

     Spec work on the big-time level is expected. It’s part of the budget of doing business. But for the small-fry graphic designer, spec work is bad. It’s just getting ripped off when time is valuable. The spec work involved in a big sales pitch leads to huge contracts that last long times and generate huge amounts of sales, set in motion long term relationships, affect other businesses, etc. But for the little graphic designer, if all the work is done up front and the client doesn’t like that, you are just out of luck. Imagine making a sandwich for a customer who says “Nope, no good” and walks out. That’s different than presenting the sandwich to the frozen food distributor who says “Nah” or might say “Yes! Now can you make 10,000 of these a month?”

155. Glen Ryan on Sep 15, 2009 said:

     In the U.K. as it seems everywhere else in the world we have the same problem of businesses under valuing the work done by graphic designers in producing logos and corporate identities. I often get told by clients wanting a logo what they are willing to pay when they come through the door. In a lot of cases it is laughable and I politely show them the door and inform them that they have come to the wrong place and advice them to purchase a clipart disc or get a family member to do it for the figure they have in mind. In a lot of cases they return realising that it can’t be done well for such a small sum. The problem is that there are a lot of so called ‘designers’ out there who just won’t turn away work no matter how much out of pocket they are by the end of it. I spoke to a designer who charged under £60.00 for a logo and laughed when I asked why he charged so little. He said that he hated turning down work. I would rather charge £600.00 per job and lose 9 out of 10 of them at the quoting stage than do 10 out of 10 jobs and still only make £600.00, if you set your prices so low to start then you are only going to attract the kind of clients who will never pay the going rate for well designed logos, identities, websites or literature.

156. JulienK on Sep 21, 2009 said:

     Hi Glen,
     You’re so right. I do exaclty the same as you. I prefer to loose 10 contracts for getting just one well payed. I earn much more money each month by applying this. As I am still news to graphic design I actually charge around 400€ for a logo creation and it’s way better for every body to do like this. By the way I’m still cheap because a friend of mine charge 2 000€ for a logo design and he started at 500€ a few years ago. Now he design for great international companies.

157. Wiredworx (@wiredworx) on Sep 23, 2009 said:

     This is a great article and certainly opened up my eyes. I can see why people do “scrimp” when looking for a logo but it really isn’t saving much in the long run!

158. Jonathan Howell on Sep 26, 2009 said:

     I just wanted to let you know that I am a 20 year old graphic designer college student and you are my inspiration/hero. Keep it, you are a great role model

159. Smestaj Sokobanja (@sokobanja) on Sep 27, 2009 said:

     he he 5 euros, thats how red bull and vodka costs. I would not do for 5 euros a scratch… Good text

160. Gary on Oct 7, 2009 said:

     To add a different thread to the discussion; I don’t find your examples of professional designs convincing because all of the companies examples you have given have spent millions branding and positioning their product or service. It is a big mistake for small companies to try to imitate large corporations; they don’t have the millions to market their brand.
     I believe people are turning away from the old corporate professional image because they don’t trust companies, governments or big corporations. People want to deal with people. Someone they feel that they can sit down and have a drink with. Someone that has a human face, somebody they can trust. Logos and slogans are not important for the vast majority of companies. People ask haven’t changed they keep on asking ‘What in it for me?’ and make a decision whether they like you or can trust you. The new wave of ‘reality marketing’ is already here, don’t hide behind an old corporate image. Those of you who repeat the old mistake of putting their name first by worrying about logo designs will just end up creating fancy tombstones!

161. francis on Oct 7, 2009 said:

     “A designer should not have to invest time and resources with no guarantee of payment much alike a dentist or any other professional.”

     I disagree with this analogy completely. The dentist “has” the right to refuse to operate on the patient if he does not choose to pay upfront. The same as the designer “has” that same exact right.

     That iss a terrible analogy in itself. Really, A dentist or doctor is a profession that requires years and years of experience to get a degree also to build the trust and credential. They take care of our health, which, to everyone should be a necessity. People dont trust just anyone to give a triple bypass surgery, i know i wouldnt.

     But a logo? Logos are still only commodities as well they should be seen as them. You might be more experience as well as educated but what does that mean in terms of profession that is still considered an art. Some people are willing to sell their “art” in form of logos for a lesser price then your. And the buyer are satisfied with them. Therefore i don’t see the problem. Its basic business.

     Im not a dentist or doctor, or a logo designer, but I am an artist. I am a photographer.

     I take photos for wedding, engagements etc. Ive seen photographer charge $10,000 for a wedding as well as Ive seen them charge $100. Ive seen complaints on both as well as I heard praises for both.

     All in all, it may be a big deal to you and not to other. Are you resentful that people who are making $5 logos are competing with your $3000+ by producing logo that “cheap” and satisfying their customer? Many people are satisfied with their logos and even though they might have paid $5.00. Some big name company i.e pepsi cola has even changed there numerous time over the last decade (and im sure they’re paying their logo artist hundreds, thousands, millions even, and even there pepsi cola isnt even satisfied.

162. jack on Oct 24, 2009 said:

     Umm.. one wrong thing.. The original Nike Swoosh was created in a Logo contest. The winner was paid $500 bucks. Need to get your information correct before you post it to back your sales pitch.

163. Eagle Imagery (@Eagle_Imagery) on Oct 24, 2009 said:

     Jack - I think *you* need to get your facts straight: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nike_logo

     $500? Logo contest? Are you kidding?….

164. Stanley (@Stanskywalker) on Oct 25, 2009 said:

     Im not sure how much the designer got paid for the Nike logo but on the subject of Nike.. check out the Anti Nike campaign that im running on my blog. http://www.ibuylogos.com/store.....-campaign/ please feel free to leave any comments

     Thanks for great post mate.

165. roof on Nov 4, 2009 said:

     I totally agree with you
     I also will write about this in my language. I USA i think client ar used to this becouse of contests where one winner gets cash prise and client can choose from a lot of designs. Clients ar ungovernable a theese times and also speculating on crisis in my opinion.

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3. May 23, 2008: Why logo design does not cost $5.00 | White Sands Digital
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