92 Responses to “Why logo design does not cost $5.00”

1. By Anthony Woods (9 comments) on May 22, 2008 | Reply

   Logo Identities are very highly unrated of the process that has to be done to achieve the result, most people think its a 2 minute job. I agree with every point you have listed jacob, logos should be a main priority in the design world, “first impressions often leave lasting ones” as one would say.

   Alot of brain storming goes into logos, to create meaning, a bad logo is one that doesnt have one. And to offer only $5 is jaw dropping, it kind of reflects in the web developement world aswell, before i started to study in college, i was designing websites for about $40 - $50 until i learned all about the paperwork, the thought process, the analysis, development and evaluation and quickly changed my market to reflect the work that has to be put in.

   Logos should be priced highly as your design! Very well structured and meaningful article :)touches on a valid point.

2. By Prescott Perez-Fox (8 comments) on May 22, 2008 | Reply

   If logos cost $5.00, an agency would have to churn out about 50 logos an hour just to break even. Talk about an assembly line!

   Developing an identity, like every other professional service, takes time and expertise. That time and expertise needs to be adequately valued. Period.

   Prescott Perez-Foxs last blog post..Credit Where Credit is Due

3. By inspirationbit (47 comments) on May 22, 2008 | Reply

   well thought out explanations on the cost of having a professional logo and the reasons behind that. Nice work on self-promotion as well

   Btw, your link to $35 logo contest took me to a $10 logo contest, but from there I found a link to $35 logo contest results which turned out to be Maki’s request to design his logo for DoshDosh in 2006. It took him less than 2 years to contact a professional logo designer to re-design his logo
   inspirationbits last blog post..How Do You Twit On Twitter?

4. By Jacob Cass (634 comments) on May 22, 2008 | Reply

   Anthony,
   Yes I know $5.00 is jaw dropping but I have seen logos go for $1 on Digital Point so that is why I try to educate people about it.

   Vivien,
   Thanks for the tip on the link, don’t know how that got in there, haven’t even seen that page before. And Dosh Dosh’s logo looked so similar to David Airey’s too. And funny thing is that David then goes and designs his logo!

5. By David Airey (52 comments) on May 22, 2008 | Reply

   Jacob,

   I appreciate the links back to my own website. Thanks very much. I guess you’re off travelling any day now?

   Vivien,

   Interesting find on Digital Point. I’d not seen that one.

   David Aireys last blog post..Creative roundup 19 May 2008

6. By Wesley Kandel (1 comments) on May 22, 2008 | Reply

   Good stuff!

7. By inspirationbit (47 comments) on May 22, 2008 | Reply

   Jacob & David:
   I was quite surprised to see Maki’s request on that forum. I also remember all the controversy surrounding his old logo’s resemblance to yours, David. Did you have your blog with the logo up in Nov 2006? Was it possible that your logo did indeed *inspire* the design of DoshDosh’s old logo?

   inspirationbits last blog post..How Do You Twit On Twitter?

8. By Jacob Cass (634 comments) on May 22, 2008 | Reply

   No worries David. On June 6th is my flight so not long now, just a few weeks~!

9. By liam (43 comments) on May 22, 2008 | Reply

   Great read. And the same applies to pretty much most graphic related work. People need educating, and articles such as this are a great platform for it.

10. By Tracey Grady (15 comments) on May 22, 2008 | Reply

    If the going rate for a logo really were $5 I’d stop eating chocolate tomorrow - and that’s never going to happen

    The fact is that when someone goes to the dentist, they understand that it takes years of specialised training (not to mention specialised equipment) to perform a root canal, and there’s no way their next door neighbour’s son can do it for them (unless he’s a trained dentist too). Not everyone appreciates the training, expertise and effort that go into logo design and all aspects of graphic design. That’s why there will always be clients that need educating. Your article does the job very well.

11. By Lindsey (2 comments) on May 22, 2008 | Reply

    How true! It’s so amazing when you think about just how much a products sales depend on labels and aesthetically pleasing design. Good article!

12. By Armen (4 comments) on May 23, 2008 | Reply

    Jacob, my friend…excellent article. Dugg and Stumbled.

    However, this battle will never end. As long as price means more than quality, there will be logos sold for the same price as lunch!!

    It’s the same for me. I mean, I’m no Jesse Bennett-Chamberlain, but I’ve gained a fairly solid understanding of basic design principles, and it shocks me what people will pay good money for (never mind peanuts), when it comes to web design.

    Armens last blog post..Timber Inspiration - 20 Top-Notch Wooden Web Designs

13. By Joshua Schneiderman (2 comments) on May 23, 2008 | Reply

    I don’t disagree, but there are two major foes of this argument.

    First, in my area, at least, there are professional and expensive designers who still miss the mark. There is a lot of bad logo design in Northeast Iowa - most of it is homemade, plenty of it is professionally done.

    The second is that a great logo, generally doesn’t look like a lot of thought and work were put into it.

    Of course, there’s one more problem that we see a lot around here that precedes the bad logo, and that is the meaningless and trite business name.

14. By Jacob Share (9 comments) on May 23, 2008 | Reply

    I particularly agree with Joshua Schneiderman’s comment but I’ll take it further.

    It’s not up to the client to estimate how valuable a designer’s work is, it’s up to the designer to make the client understand why their work is so valuable.

    Or, you can always aim your services at the high-end of the market so that you’ll only have clients who a) do understand that value or b) who falsely claim to do so but have the money to make it worth your while to educate them.

    Jacob Shares last blog post..PureBlogging’s How To Group Writing Project

15. By Paul (5 comments) on May 23, 2008 | Reply

    Excellent, excellent post.

16. By Carsten Nielsen (2 comments) on May 23, 2008 | Reply

    Amen!

17. By Jacob Cass (634 comments) on May 23, 2008 | Reply

    Liam,
    Well that is the aim
    Tracey,
    Well we wouldn’t want that would we? No chocolate and like you said I am trying to educate.

    Lindsey,
    Packaging design is even worse!

    Armen,
    Thanks Armen for the promo and yes it is a never ending battle. And yes there are people out there with the money to pay so I guess in the end it does come down to the client.

    Joshua,
    Thanks for your added thoughts on the topic and yes, like any argument there are two sides. I agree with you regarding “The second is that a great logo, generally doesn’t look like a lot of thought and work were put into it.” What are some really bad business names you have come across?

    Jacob,
    I suppose you can do it either way like you said but it is always better for the client to be educated.

    Paul,
    Glad you liked it.

18. By John (18 comments) on May 23, 2008 | Reply

    Design, web design, identity are all international services now, but there is no international currency. This creates a problem of inflation/deflation for people in certain regions. In my opinion, a person not willing to shell out dough for a design is not worthy of having a business.

19. By Jim Lipsey (1 comments) on May 23, 2008 | Reply

    It’s interesting that you provide Nike’s logo as a counterexample, given that it was created by a student for $35.

    Rather than comparing the output of a $35 design contest for a specific project to a selection of the finest examples in logo design history, I would have liked to see what a professionally-contracted shop would have produced given nothing more than the exact same 28 word specification.

    Jim Lipseys last blog post..Little Snowballs

20. By Jacob Cass (634 comments) on May 23, 2008 | Reply

    John,
    I know all too well about the international services. I get contacted probably every 2 weeks (mostly from India) with people wanting to collaborate with me on projects - and they say they will work for $10 or less. Some don’t even have a portfolio which is a bit sad. I wonder how they afford a computer and internet connection if they are working for that?

    Jim,
    Very funny you brought that up because I was going to mention it in the artice but thought it would take way from the point. And yes, that would be interesting to see what they would come up with - it would have made a more rigorous article.

21. By Keith (2 comments) on May 23, 2008 | Reply

    “I wonder how they afford a computer and internet connection if they are working for that?”

    - Because places like India have a currency that equates to a lot less when converted in dollars. It’s all relative my friend. Plus, nice work in the in depth article.

22. By Nathan Monk (1 comments) on May 23, 2008 | Reply

    Excellent article

23. By ar-lock (1 comments) on May 23, 2008 | Reply

    scalable? a 5 minute design can be scalable..

    is it even a logo if its not an svg?
    no its not. its a picture..

24. By Dan Cole (5 comments) on May 23, 2008 | Reply

    Jim & Jacob,
    The Nike logo cost $35 at the time, but the same thing today would cost $200 when you account for inflation. Also, by doing the math on the numbers provided in that link, that logo took ~18 hours to research, sketch, and design. If she had more experience like the average designer, it would be upwards of $400 to $500.

25. By Mirko (7 comments) on May 23, 2008 | Reply

    Why logo design does not cost $5.00? Well… that question shouldn’t even be asked. Anyway your answer is great.

    Mirkos last blog post..Picturing disasters

26. By Jack (4 comments) on May 23, 2008 | Reply

    I’ve never thought about it before, ever. I didn’t realise how bad logos could be and the fact there are people paying $10 for one and asking for tweaks etc?

    I think this must be the first time I have stood on this side of the design fence - the divide between “but it will look good on your portfolio” and “if you pay me professionally then you will get a professional”.

    I’m actually feeling a little depressed at the thought of competition sites/forums. When I started designing I thought they were great opportunities; thankfully I never did enter any!

    Thanks for the post.

    Jacks last blog post..Video Tutorials

27. By Jacob Cass (634 comments) on May 23, 2008 | Reply

    Keith,
    Thanks for clarifying that. So they try to get jobs overseas so it converts back better into their currency?

    Ar-Lock,
    Well if you design a logo that is ONLY going to based on the web then you could design the logo not in Vector but usually this is not a wise move just in case it ever does goes need to go offline.

    Dan,
    Thanks for that Dan… I couldn’t stand doing maths at 2am!
    18 hours is still a fair amount of time in comparison to the logo design contests. Their process usually consists of them opening their program of choice (usually Firefox surprisingly or not surprisingly I don’t know), and designing the first thing that comes to their head.

    Mirko,
    Well I tried my best to answer it and it does need to be answered because there are logo designs out there going for that much and people do need to be educated.

28. By Keith (2 comments) on May 23, 2008 | Reply

    “Thanks for clarifying that. So they try to get jobs overseas so it converts back better into their currency?”

    Exactly, that’s why outsourcing overseas is so lucrative for many companies.

    Keiths last blog post..Software I use day to day

29. By Dirty Scarab (1 comments) on May 23, 2008 | Reply

    I don’t get out of bed for less than $150 a logo. (but I have been known to charge a considerable amount more than that).

    My main client base is local bands, and unfortunately, local bands aren’t swimming around in boatloads of cash, so I tend to charge on a case by case basis. But yeah, $5?? I’d charge that if the logo took 2 minutes to design…!

30. By PublicRecordsGuy (3 comments) on May 23, 2008 | Reply

    Okay, I’m feeling a little guilty here now for posting contests in Digital Point for cheap logos. Your comparison of the cheap to the professional one, particularly the NBA logo really gave me the “A HA” moment. Job well done. Now if only I can win that logo design contest you offered, since I can’t afford a Professional Logo. Thanks.

    PublicRecordsGuys last blog post..Such a Sad Day For The Chapman Family

31. By Bryan D. Hughes (4 comments) on May 23, 2008 | Reply

    I’m going to have to disagree to some amount.

    I fully agree with your viewpoint on Spec work, Contests, and the absolute value in hiring a professional designer. I must disagree, however, in that this is a some uphill battle that can be ‘fixed’. There is a gradient of quality and development price evolving into a premium/economy tier system, like any other industry, and one doesn’t necessarily effect the other. In the scale-covered underbelly of the internet (craigslist), there are $50 logos bought and sold all day long, every day, and not one of those parties are in competition with or a potential client of mine.

    A recent prospect asked me before accepting my estimate what the advantages are to hiring me at $50 an hour over hiring an intern or art student. Rather than get offended at the notion, I saw that he honestly didn’t know the difference. The VALUE of a good logo isn’t instantly seen by the public the same way we designers see it, so the argument that a development process that is more involved and costs $4000+ is better than a $50 craigslist logo can seem rather arbitrary. Suddenly it was clear to me that this ‘battle’ with the lower-quality tier of design isn’t a battle at all, but a challenge to my own brand to make the quality of my work apparent to my prospects in an apparent and quantifiable way.

    None of you, or I, are in direct competition with any $5 logo developers, so why be so concerned with it? I’ve seen this debate at time seem almost as if some art student is taking money directly out of wallets. Just do what you do, do it well, and bad business decisions (hiring a $5 logo designer!) will work themselves out accordingly.

    Despite being HORRIBLE for you in every way, people go to McDonald’s for a reason. I doubt the premium steakhouse across the street loses any sleep at night.

32. By Beaulys (16 comments) on May 23, 2008 | Reply

    Hello Jacob !

    Hey, you know, in France, that’s a problem too. More than a problem, that’s a battle.

    People don’t realize that graphic design is more than a little drawing made in few times for $5 (or 10€ yah ? ), and with the “crowdsourcing” phenomena, now, some start-ups and societies sell design made by amateurs, who are not either engaged or paid (or only the “winner” is paid, well… er… paid $450 and the sellers take 30% of these $450).

    They don’t even know what author rights (That’s it, in English ? Copyrights and propriety stuffs ) are !

    I’m happy to see that denunciations are also made outside my country.

    Keep it up !

33. By Doug C (1 comments) on May 23, 2008 | Reply

    A very important article and even more so for those wanting a logo design. I have encountered a gamut of situations when it comes to this subject. I believe the problem stems from the fact that graphics are basically intangible and so the majority of people can’t comprehend spending a lot of money for them. Now this attitude is especially prevalent with individuals who have no clue about the design process and/or respect for the designer involved. These type of people I tend to steer clear of. On the other hand a client who does understand the process and the work involved is not going to have an issue paying for it. Of course, these types of clients are rare (at least in my experience).

34. By Vaughn Sanders (1 comments) on May 23, 2008 | Reply

    I really like the article. You gave a great explanation.

    I agree that $5 or even $35 is insulting to good/professional designers. However, a few years back when looking for a logo for my consulting business I wasn’t able to get one because of 1) The cost 2) Lack of Good Designer.

    I was quoted $500-$1000 for a logo. As, a non designer, I had no idea what to expect and this was an eye opener. It was much more than I could afford. A few designers had some pretty crappy portfolios too.

    On another note, I wouldn’t say that logos of popular companies are necessarily good. Most are recognizable because of their product and have been around for a long time. Not necessarily because their logo.

35. By Steve O (20 comments) on May 23, 2008 | Reply

    This subject is always a popular one and I see from the comments that no contest entrants have trolled it yet. I put my feelings on this subject across on graphicPUSH’s post and I fall firmly on the side who would like to see competition sites disappear.
    I deal with bad logos every day, killing my soul producing work for estate agents as I do, and it hurts every time I have to compromise. Most of them are obviously designed in Word or using some of the WORST free fonts I have ever seen. New job… soon…

    You might be interested in this post and the one it links to.

36. By Per Pettersson (2 comments) on May 23, 2008 | Reply

    Great post! Yet another reason why more should follow your blog.

    Cheers from Sweden!
    /Per

37. By Darren (1 comments) on May 23, 2008 | Reply

    Loved the article and 100% agree with your opinions on the value of good, thoughtful, intelligent and and above all — creative Graphic Design, particularly when an Identity is concerned. I do think that thankfully the importance of a good logo identity is becoming more apparent in the world around us largely in part to the company’s behind the logo’s you used as reference and the designers that help brand and market them. I mean who here doesn’t like the print design that comes out of Starbucks and Nike. However, I did find it amusing that the Logo’s illustrated as “Professional Logo Design” whilst many millions of dollars have been spent on the branding and re-development of them, originally cost about $5.00 (Disney, Nike, Coke etc) I remember reading an article on Virgins’ Richard Branson saying he paid for the napkin the logo was drawn on. I guess it illustrates that sometimes good ideas come easy to some, but creativity is a gift and should come with a price especially in the business world and for us making a living as graphic designers.
    PS: As Your logo illustrates — long live the pencil and the ideas that flow through it.

38. By Jacob Cass (634 comments) on May 23, 2008 | Reply

    Keith,
    No wonder I get so many emails from India.

    Scarab,
    Have you thought about raising your prices to see if they would pay it? If you sell your product and yourself then I am sure you will be able to double your money. Give it a shot.

    PublicRecordsGuy,
    Even DoshDosh has posted in Digital Point Forums before but the problem is not everyone knows the problem with it, so that is why I am posting about it. Good luck in the contest I am going through them all and giving them scores.

    Bryan,
    I don’t believe the battle can be fixed either and it is about where you target your market however many people do not know the difference and I am sure if they did know then they would make a more educated decision.

    “It isn’t a battle at all, but a challenge to my own brand to make the quality of my work apparent to my prospects in an apparent and quantifiable way.”

    Amen,however I do believe we are in competition with these cheap designers in some respect (much alike McDonalds and the Steakhouse) because some clients do not know the difference, where as in the food industry it is obvious. For example, not every one my readers are designers however they may be interested in what I write about and now that I have written this article they are now more likely to get a professionally designed logo than from a contest. Do you agree?

    Beaulys,
    I believe it is a problem internationally especially for designers who are just above the starting rate and not fully professional. They have to compete with both amateurs and the professionals and yeah copyright too.

    Doug,
    I agree with what you are saying and that is what I have tried to communicate here in my article however if you try to stay clear of these ‘types of people’ then they will most probably never learn.

    I see it is as our job to educate them. I often get emails from people wanting free logos or “tips” or “concepts” for their logos and I try to educate them on logo design process and now I can point them to this article and the great comments here.

    Vaughn,
    Bryan had a good point on this topic if you read his comment. In the end it is down to the client and their needs however we should be educating them to make a wiser decision.

    In most cases, I believe most popular business logos are quite well designed not just because they have been around a long time. Can you name some that are not well designed?

    Steve O.
    Thanks for those links, I have read them both before and I will add a link to them in my page now and I am with you regarding sites like that disappearing. Thanks.

    Per,
    Glad you enjoyed it. Share the love
    Darren,
    Long live the pencil and yeah gotta love Starbucks and Nike’s design - and Apple. I never knew about Richard Branson and the napkin, pretty interesting. We had a small discussion in the comments regarding the Nike Design if you read about it?

39. By kristarella (61 comments) on May 23, 2008 | Reply

    This is a lot of comments in a day!

    Good post. I agree, which is why I don’t have a logo. I don’t want to try to brand myself with something cheap or something I’m going to hate in a year. At least I don’t have a business that I’m trying to mark – if I was trying to make money it would definitely be worth spending the money for a decent logo.

    Have you seen the Freelance Freedom comics on Freelance Switch?
    http://freelanceswitch.com/fre.....reedom-40/
    http://freelanceswitch.com/fre.....reedom-41/
    http://freelanceswitch.com/fre.....reedom-43/

    Fairly relevant to your dentist story.

    kristarellas last blog post..Tumblr, tweets and twizzles (for shizzle)

40. By Jacob Cass (634 comments) on May 23, 2008 | Reply

    Thanks Kristarella, I have updated the post with the comics, I always look at those comics, they are great! Thanks for the reminder.

    Your blog is fine for its purpose, it doesn’t need a logo. The nice typeface and illustration does the job.

41. By Ricardo (6 comments) on May 23, 2008 | Reply

    Great article
    

42. By Joram Oudenaarde (2 comments) on May 23, 2008 | Reply

    Darn those people who think we use Word bitmap images to make a logo. And darn those people who make these kind of $5,- logo’s and make clients believe it’s good :/

    But seriously, I really hope they someday, somehow, will see that we’re actually doing research and make a proper and fitting “good” logo for their companies.

43. By Karen Swim (1 comments) on May 24, 2008 | Reply

    As a writer I face many of the same challenges so can totally relate. $5 logos are like $5 articles. You get output, but it will not be quality! I learned a lot from your post on the logo design process. I am certain that many people can use education in this area. In absence of understanding, people default to pricing comparisons. Jo Phillips dugg this post and I’m glad he did. Thank you for illuminating the design process and heightening the respect I have for what you do.

44. By Bryan D. Hughes (4 comments) on May 24, 2008 | Reply

    Jacob,

    I agree with you completely on that:

    “… I do believe we are in competition with these cheap designers in some respect (much alike McDonalds and the Steakhouse) because some clients do not know the difference, where as in the food industry it is obvious.”

    The issue is awareness, not that the $5 logo contests exist. Some designers talk about Spec Work and Contests as if they’re something that could be stamped out, and that would somehow solve the issue of good design being a complex issue. I expect that if the collective energy of the designers raging against contests and spec work were applied to solving the problem via their own brand, the culture would be much more positively influenced.

45. By Kate (1 comments) on May 24, 2008 | Reply

    Great post, and really timely for me… I just lost a client who got upset when I upped my logo prices versus what I charged six months ago… Given the seminars and classes and just basic time spent with the programs, $500 seems pretty fair, especially considering all the deadline slips, reconcepting, reformatting several times because he used a printer that I recommended against… Basically, a huge headache, so I’m not going to miss his particular business. I do wonder, though, how much more I could have gotten away with charging him.
    Kates last blog post..Designs On Me 1: How I learned to stop worrying and love Command-Z.

46. By Michael (6 comments) on May 24, 2008 | Reply

    The other side is the designers that want to be paid up front and then turn out shit. It goes both ways.

47. By kristarella (61 comments) on May 24, 2008 | Reply

    Michael, I’d be wary of anyone asking you to pay upfront (what other businesses legitimately ask you to do something like that unless they have to fork out heaps for materials, e.g. building a house?).
    That’s also why you look at portfolios, recommendations etc, before approaching the designer, asking them what they can do for you and then telling them you want to shop around.
    There should also be an upfront agreement about the level of adjustment and revisions the designer is willing/obligated to do.
    However, all of those things are redundant if the customer is unwilling to accept the value of a professionally designed logo.

    kristarellas last blog post..Tumblr, tweets and twizzles (for shizzle)

48. By Jacob Cass (634 comments) on May 24, 2008 | Reply

    Karen,

    I am certain that many people can use education in this area. In absence of understanding, people default to pricing comparisons.

    I think that sums it up. Thanks to Jon for digging it, as always.

    Bryan,
    As you will have noticed in the comments from people reading the blog that people do appreciate the education. For example what Karen just said “Thank you for illuminating the design process and heightening the respect I have for what you do.” I also believe that designers need to find a line between education and speculation. For example, I do not charge thousands for a logo however there are many people that do, but it is not the target I am catering for so I must show the difference between what my business offers instead of the contests.

    Kate,
    Maybe if the article was written a little earlier you could have shown him and he would have changed his mind?

    Michael,
    The way around that is to get a deposit upfront, say 50%, and then the final 50% on completion. That way the client and the designer have control over the whole process. If the client doesn’t like the designs at first then they can pull out if they want to. What do you think?

    And as Kristarella said, you should be looking at their portfolio first to judge if their designs are going to work for you.

49. By Kate Moon (2 comments) on May 24, 2008 | Reply

    “Maybe if the article was written a little earlier you could have shown him and he would have changed his mind?”

    I actually bookmarked it in case he refused to pay! I’ll be keeping it handy for sure.

    Kate Moons last blog post..Designs On Me 1: How I learned to stop worrying and love Command-Z.

50. By kost (1 comments) on May 25, 2008 | Reply

    The nike logo was done by a design student, for 25$.. so you never know..

51. By Jacob Cass (634 comments) on May 25, 2008 | Reply

    Kost, have a read in the comments, we have been discussing the Nike logo if interested.

52. By Mayhem Studios (3 comments) on May 25, 2008 | Reply

    If you guys like comics. You may find this little gif animation very funny.

    http://www.mayhemstudios.com/H.....signer.gif

53. By Mayhem Studios (3 comments) on May 25, 2008 | Reply

    Regarding Spec Work. Looks like 99 Designs and Sitepoint is at it again!

    99 Designs is sponsoring a free pdf version of the book, “The Photoshop Anthology: 101 Web Design Tips, Tricks & Techniques.”

    The book looks more like for newbies. This is their way of suckering newbie designers into their Spec Contest web site!

    In order for you to get the download link. You need to enter your email address. Yet another way to get you on their mailing list.

54. By Jacob Cass (634 comments) on May 26, 2008 | Reply

    Thanks for the comic, I stumbled onto that a while back!

    Doesn’t look like it is going to end anytime soon regarding contests - it never will.

55. By Mayhem Studios (3 comments) on May 26, 2008 | Reply

    Unfortunately, you’re correct! The thing that gets me is that, designers are adding to all the spec work and contest too. They don’t care unless it affects them.

    As a NoSpec committee member, I’m glad to see that NoSpec has done some good. Many companies have change their practices because of the No Spec campaigns.

    - Cal

56. By Jesse (4 comments) on May 27, 2008 | Reply

    I couldn’t agree further.

    Just came across this article:
    http://www.wired.com/wired/arc.....html?pg=13

57. By Website Design (1 comments) on May 28, 2008 | Reply

    Great post! I think a lot of people don’t realize the time and effort that goes into things like website design, logo design / branding, etc. For many, they are unable to see it as a tangible item and have difficulty justifying any substantial cost.

58. By modemlooper (38 comments) on May 28, 2008 | Reply

    This is a must! => Are these logos effective without colour?

    and less is more with logo design

    modemloopers last blog post..How To Optimize Your Blog Post Images For Mobile

59. By Jacob Cass (634 comments) on May 28, 2008 | Reply

    Ryan,
    No link?

60. By J. Jeffryes (7 comments) on May 29, 2008 | Reply

    Does the Porsche dealer get upset when they see people paying $500 for a beat up used Station Wagon?

    Our challenge is that some potential Porsche buyers don’t know the difference between a Porsche and a Station Wagon. We need to educate them so they buy Porsches.

    Our other challenge is some designers don’t know the difference between someone that wants a Porsche and someone that wants a Station Wagon. We need to educate them so they stop trying to sell the wrong people Porsches.

61. By Craig (2 comments) on May 30, 2008 | Reply

    Great article, I think one of the most import things with a logo is that it has to be one that can still represent the company if it gets switched to grey scale (without color). It also has to be memorable.

62. By design snob (1 comments) on May 30, 2008 | Reply

    So, is a LOGO more valuable than a photograph or a font? Many of the same designers who are crying about spec work are downloading free fonts, stock photos, and design elements, dingbats, etc. Why should photographers and font designers get the short end of the stick. I enter these spec contests because its great practice to try and knock out a passable logo in under an hour. The design community tends to be whiny and self important it seems. Do you really think issues of branding and scalability mean anything to the guy starting out his business as a local cleaning company? He just needs a nice logo done quickly
    Doesn’t the guy with 3000 in startup money for his business deserve quality work? Designers seem to think the visual identity they are providing a company is more important than the company itself. Its really just window dressing ultimately, get over it.

63. By Jeremy Delane (1 comments) on May 30, 2008 | Reply

    Excellent Post -
    I really enjoyed your comparison to visiting the dentist. I recently put in a brief bid on a job and the client asked if I would consider doing the job for free and in turn be allowed to use it in my portfolio. Interestingly the client was a small finance company? So after some contemplation I decided to respond by agreeing to do the work, if their company was interested in providing zero interest small business loans for an extended period of time. After what was apparently a brief period of laughter, they responded with “we’ll find someone to do it for free.” Unfortunately they will and this problem will continue.

    Jeremy Delanes last blog post..Providing Website Consulting and Evaluation to the Waukesha Area

64. By Don (1 comments) on May 30, 2008 | Reply

    Great article, man. A ton of my clients are going to get this link.

65. By Jacob Cass (634 comments) on May 30, 2008 | Reply

    J. Jeffryes,
    A good analogy you have there. What do you think is the best way of educating clients / other designers?

    Craig,
    Some good points, did you read Jeff Fishers logo design interview? He actually mentioned never confine yourself to “rules”. It is a very interesting and educational interview indeed.

    Design Snob,
    Each to their own opinion they may say but have you read any of the articles that I posted in the article above? You may change your views if you do.

    “I enter these spec contests because its great practice to try and knock out a passable logo in under an hour.”

    I wonder how many of these start up business you are designing for last out for more than 3 years? Issues of branding will mean a lot to someone who has business sense however the problem we have is that not everyone does.

    A logo is “really just window dressing ultimately, get over it.” I wonder why Coca Cola’s brand is worth 8 Billion dollars then?

    Hope you come back to continue this discussion as you’re the first person in this discussion not to oppose Spec Work so far.

    Jeremy Delane,
    Haha, good on ya and yes it will continue but we can lessen it by educating people.

    Don,
    Cheers Don and thanks for the link out on your blog!

66. By J. Jeffryes (7 comments) on May 30, 2008 | Reply

    @Jacob

    It’s very simple, really. When I was running my design studio, I was running a professional company. And I acted like it. My site, my card, my correspondence, all of it was done professionally. When I met clients, I informed them that projects required 50% up front. Anything more complicated than a logo or infographic required a separate (and separately paid for) discovery period before an estimate would be issued.

    Usually that was enough for clients to “get it.” Most of the designers they dealt with acted like desperate amateurs. I studied the businesspeople I worked with/for, and acted like they did, like a person worth the money they are being paid. A lawyer doesn’t haggle over prices, they tell you their rates, and when you balk, they walk away.

    Sure, there were times clients freaked out and told me they thought my rates were too high. When that happened I told them my rates were for top of the line work, and that if their company wasn’t successful enough to need that kind of work, I would be happy to recommend less experienced designers I knew that might be able to deliver a less polished product.

    More than once I had clients come back to me after I said that, after they had tried cheaper designers, and ask me to come back and redo the project for them. Sometimes for more than my original estimate. The ones that didn’t aren’t clients I would have wanted.

    You have to believe you have a premium product, and you have to make the client believe that. As long as you don’t believe you are worth more than a $50 logo, you never will be.

67. By Jacob Cass (634 comments) on May 31, 2008 | Reply

    J. Jeffreys,
    
    First off before you try to reply, there is something wrong with the comments field. I edited the post to add something in and once I saved it, the comments turned off and I went to turn them back on, (both trackbacks and comments) however it did not work so no one can leave comments except for me. This has happened to about 5 other articles of mine (all usually pretty popular articles with many comments) so not sure what is up, some bug I presume. Any idea? Fixed.

    Regarding your comment however that is a good way of looking at it… I was actually reading the How To Freelance Like A Rockstar eBook on the weekend about pricing yourself and they had a pretty good basic formula to follow as well and they mentioned some of the things you just said.”You have to believe you have a premium product, and you have to make the client believe that.”

68. By Staniel (1 comments) on Oct 19, 2008 | Reply

    There have been many organizations that have paid a lot of money for poorly designed logos. The price you pay for a logo does not guarantee anything.

    I will agree that your chances for a great logo decrease greatly when you aim below the $20 mark or try to obtain a logo via an online contest. There have been many low budget logo contests and logo design portfolios that use stock photography or clip-art in their logos. These should obviously be avoided. Knowing what final files you will receive and if the designer will stand behind their design is very important as well.

    Logo design is no different than everything else in this world. If you look hard enough…you can find a great deal!

69. By Jennifer Harris (2 comments) on Oct 21, 2008 | Reply

    I wrote a similar blog but not as indepth. it has a good little story to go with it…..

    http://keylimecreative.ca/2008.....your-logo/

    Jennifer Harris | Graphic Designer | Key Lime Creative

70. By Jacob Cass (634 comments) on Oct 21, 2008 | Reply

    Thanks Jennifer, another great article, it was more in depth than this one in my opinion. It took a different look on it anyway. Thank you.

71. By Sergio Ordóñez (2 comments) on Nov 1, 2008 | Reply

    Hello Jacob, superb post

    In my experience most of those clients sell their sites, leave the project or change the concept of their sites in short time. They are webmasters with hundred of domains and the hope of fast money is higher than the hope of building a brand, no planning needed.

    What I mean is there is people with serious projects who are hoping to spend good money for good work and others who just want to reach the top in a few months, if they dont get it then the site is sold… so why to spend more than 5US$?.

    Cheers.

72. By Jacob Cass (634 comments) on Nov 2, 2008 | Reply

    Hi Sergio,
    Thanks for the comment, I can see where you are coming from, and it is true in some respects but obviously not everyone has hundreds of domains so it depends on your background and plans I suppose. Also, love your work on SOS.

73. By Justin (1 comments) on Nov 12, 2008 | Reply

    The only thing is that the Nike logo was not designed by some amazing firm, but by a student at Portland State University in 1971 charging $2 an hour and receiving $35 for the final design of the swoosh.
    http://www.dinesh.com/History_.....d_History/

74. By Aleron (1 comments) on Nov 13, 2008 | Reply

    I do agree with most of this artical, but the point about the dentist was incorrect. In fact, if the work is not satisfactory, you do not legally have to pay, as they have violated their part of the agreement.
    If you went to a dentist and they did a bad job on your teeth you would not expect to pay, and in fact, if they had damaged your teeth, you would want compensation.

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